creating login

[desperado]

Hi, I was hoping someone could help me out a lil bit here. I shall create a Program in Visual Studios 2005 (Im not sure if this is in the correct area **sorry mods if its not**).

I shall explain what i want the program to do, if some one could just let me know what is going to be the best way to carry out this operation, as some ppl have told me im going to have to use asp.net and others said using just studios with a database links should be fine. Im just puzzled quite a bit and im sure there are a few vb experts in here who could just tell me what direction i should be heading in.

well here is what i want my program to do:
1- To have a login Screen (with multiple users) I shall be an admin, but once logged in I should be able to create other users who are NOT admin. And delete users who are not in use.
2- I want to be able to add/remove items, and i want to be able to see what items have been borrowed by people, and what items have been returned.
3- When Users log on i want them to be able to ask for assistance with some problems so when they log on they would add something like "Monitor not working" and the Admin would log on and answer the problem.
4- When Users log on under a section, there are 5 computer suites, I want them to be able to look at some suites and let the Admin know what suite they want to book out and for how long, so a computer suite is blocked out under the users use for example maybe half a day and some suites shall be in use, finally
5- when users log on their screen should be different from the admins screen, users cant add/delete items and users, they can only see what items are available and who has borrowed items, they can only see what suites are available at what times, and can request assistance and log calls. Admin on the other hand can do all of that and add/edit/delete information.

Hope you have a general idea, Im kinda in split minds as i dont know what is the best way forward. Also im a bit rusty on my vb skills, I would like to see honest comments if you feel im biting off more than i can chew then its fine, and if you think i shall struggle on any of the sections and i should drop any of the sections please let me know.

Thank you for your time.

 

[JuggaloBrotha]

the first question is, do you want to achieve this through a webproject (asp.net) or plain windows (winform)?

 

[desperado]

at the moment i am in 2minds, i think as i have weak asp.net knowledge, i shall just go with the standard windows format, and install this on a few machines may be on a shared resources file? the asp.net looks difficult and to be honest ive never even tried asp.net, it looks rock.

 

[desperado]

I have decided to proceed in using the standard vb linked with access database and no asp.net.

Well I was wondering is someone could help me out a lil here please. I have an excel sheet which basically houses all the computer suites from now till the end of the year, it is quite simple to look at and use, as there are tabs at the sides werre you can switch between the weeks, and the sheets at the bottom you can switch between the suites. My big question is, is there a way in which i can integrate the excel in to vb? the userface i would like to keep the same, or will i have to totally change it?

 

[cjard]

I dont suppose your network runs Microsoft Outlook does it? Outlook and Exchange already invented this particular wheel..

To answer your question, er, yeah.. If each machine has Office installed then you might just be able to load the sheet into your app (i.e. recreate Excel but with fewer buttons) and use it as before, but i thought you were looking to write a proper app for this?
What you ask is indeed quite a big project for rusty vb skills.. Shame the boss couldnt start you on something simpler.

1) Forget the login form for now, we'll cross that complexity when we come to it
2) Single table with all the resources, and simple flags to show whether it's out, and who has it
3) Interesting thought; how would they log a problem with the monitor if they cant see the problem form? (Keyboard not present, press F1 to continue) - this would be a simple, single table in the database
4) Can use the same table as the "borrow a thing" table - a room is a thing, and can be borrowed for a certain time
5) Let's walk before we run!!

Most apps start with the database design, then proceed to the GUI etc. Are you OK with doing that?

 

[desperado]

cjard,
Thanx for the response mate, yup the nwtwork does run Microsoft outlook, Hmmm have they.

Yeh each machine has office installed, if it means recreating the excel sheet within vb then I don’t mind and I shall put in fewer buttons if that would make it more of a user friendly interface. Nope, it is fine if I don’t have a proper app up and running for the room bookings as I can put that in my future projects with maybe having a proper app for the room suites, using asp.net, and maybe going away from access. Yeh tell me about it it is quite a big project and with my skills its even worse, thing is for personal reasons I have been unable to use vb for the past odd year, and its like ive totally lost my knowledge lol.

1-kool, I was thinking about this aswell. I would probably do this the last.
2-Yeh sure, I think a single table with just showing what is out and who has it is fine.
3-LOL, I never thought of that. Maybe log on on to the next computer and log in a problem to do with the other computer lol. Yup also another single table?
4-Im looking in to this though, as we have talked earlier I have an excel up and running which is simple to use, and id prefer if we just put that in to the vb, rather than have another database.
5-One very very very big positive thing I have on my side is time, if I had next to nothing time I would be panicking and struggling. But time is no object as I have about 8 months to complete this. Do you think this is enough time??

Well I could think how id fit the databases in to the project, but if you could please elaborate on the gui? I know it’s the gui interface, but in what context do you mean?

thanx

 

[JuggaloBrotha]

GUI is short for Graphical User Interface, the GUI are the windows, buttons, textbox's, etc.. everything graphical for the user to use

 

[cjard]

Thanx for the response mate, yup the nwtwork does run Microsoft outlook, Hmmm have they.

Then put each room and object down as a resource and teach the people how to book it out using Outlook. Problem solved.

I have been unable to use vb for the past odd year, and its like ive totally lost my knowledge lol.

if your previoous knowledge was VB6 then I would advocate viewing VB.NET as a whole new learning experience - all that you will recognise from VB6 are a few keywords like Dim, Sub, Function.. The rest of it is totally different; VB.NET is a proper multi-threaded object oriented syntax (the language is .NET) whereas VB6 is a single-preaded procedural legacy pile-up of not-particularly-well-engineered features

4-Im looking in to this though, as we have talked earlier I have an excel up and running which is simple to use, and id prefer if we just put that in to the vb, rather than have another database.

Writing a shell for an excel spreadsheet, or using an excel spreadsheet as a database, is not an sensible use of time. excel is not a database, and this project would require one.

Do you think this is enough time??

8 months is ertainly enough time to learn how to book resources out in outlook; microsoft have made a very, very good job of this already. It will take you longer than 8 months to implement a similar level of functionality yourself. Are there no other tasks you can apply yourself to, in order to further your vb skills?

Well I could think how id fit the databases in to the project, but if you could please elaborate on the gui? I know it’s the gui interface, but in what context do you mean?

I'm not sure what this question is asking - any application needs an interface that the user can interact with, and it's the most important aspect of product design..

 

[desperado]

Then put each room and object down as a resource and teach the people how to book it out using Outlook. Problem solved.

Hi im really sorry about this but if you could please elaborate, how would I change this from the excel format in to outlook express. Honestly speaking I don’t really like outlook express, asi have looked at it in the past and have experienced a lot of problems. But if you could just explain this a lil bit more I would be greatful.

if your previoous knowledge was VB6 then I would advocate viewing VB.NET as a whole new learning experience - all that you will recognise from VB6 are a few keywords like Dim, Sub, Function.. The rest of it is totally different; VB.NET is a proper multi-threaded object oriented syntax (the language is .NET) whereas VB6 is a single-preaded procedural legacy pile-up of not-particularly-well-engineered features

Erm actually my previous knowledge was VB.NET and right now I will have to use Visual Studios 2005. From what I have seen with Visual Studios its different to VB.NET, Most my programs are just not even working in VS, they all are coming up with exceptional errors (Break Points) and I have Converted them, If anything VS is more confusing than VB.NET.

Writing a shell for an excel spreadsheet, or using an excel spreadsheet as a database, is not an sensible use of time. Excel is not a database, and this project would require one.

Oh, So you think I should scrap this Idea? Is there no way this could work? I have not checked but maybe Vba coding was used in the excel. I have thought about this through and my reaction is to use a database, I don’t really like the idea of excel in VB and I got a feeling this will just waste my time.

8 months is ertainly enough time to learn how to book resources out in outlook; microsoft have made a very, very good job of this already. It will take you longer than 8 months to implement a similar level of functionality yourself. Are there no other tasks you can apply yourself to, in order to further your vb skills?

Thanks for giving me the confidence in to knowing I should be ablt to complete this, What Microsoft have developed, do you think it would suit my idea? So I should just use microsofts Idea? Well there is nothing else, I have Some lil knowledge in VB.Net and this has to be made in Visual Studios, so I think I should kind of get my head around this.

I'm not sure what this question is asking - any application needs an interface that the user can interact with, and it's the most important aspect of product design.

I understand, the Interface is the most important part. This is an academic project so if I struggle on some aspects I can drop them. I want the interface to be user friendly, so my lecturer does not get puzzled. Hopefully I will be ablt to have some sort of program up and running, and the foundation of this project soon.

Also 1 final thing. My friends have asked me if im using access or sql, well ive worked with both in the past, but with the sql I just made some databases using oracle, What do u think is the best way? Access or oracle? Keeping in mind I want this to be simple.

Thanks.

 

[cjard]

how would I change this from the excel format in to outlook express.

Outlook <> Outlook Express!

Which one are you using? Be certain/specific

Erm actually my previous knowledge was VB.NET and right now I will have to use Visual Studios 2005. From what I have seen with Visual Studios its different to VB.NET, Most my programs are just not even working in VS, they all are coming up with exceptional errors (Break Points) and I have Converted them, If anything VS is more confusing than VB.NET.

Hmm, ok. Clarification: Visual Studio 2005 is a suite of development products from Microsoft, one of which is VB.NET 2005. It's a bit like Office is a suite of productivity apps that includes WOrd, Excel, Access.. When you say Visual Studio is different to VB.NET that's like saying Office is different to Word or Sportscar is different to Porsche 911.

If your previous knowledge is of VB.NET then it is likely an older .NET framework version like 1.0 or 1.1 (2002/2003 respectively). It was possible to buy VBN separately in these versions.

Oh, So you think I should scrap this Idea? Is there no way this could work? I have not checked but maybe Vba coding was used in the excel. I have thought about this through and my reaction is to use a database, I don’t really like the idea of excel in VB and I got a feeling this will just waste my time.

See if you can use an implementation of this wheel that has already been invented before you write your own. If you choose to write your own, ditch excel, ditch old code, and write something well engineered from the start
And dont use Microsoft Access either!

Thanks for giving me the confidence in to knowing I should be ablt to complete this, What Microsoft have developed, do you think it would suit my idea? So I should just use microsofts Idea? Well there is nothing else, I have Some lil knowledge in VB.Net and this has to be made in Visual Studios, so I think I should kind of get my head around this.

I preferentially use other people's wheels rather than reinvent my own. Often when I look at the dollar cost of someone else's wheel compared with what I would charge to develop it myself, its is cheaper to buy. Of course, value has to be assigned to the worth of having written something yourself and hence got the source code to modfy as you please. Often clients find they can make do with 90% functionality if implementing the other 10% would make the cost of the project 10 times more expensive

I understand, the Interface is the most important part. This is an academic project so if I struggle on some aspects I can drop them. I want the interface to be user friendly, so my lecturer does not get puzzled. Hopefully I will be ablt to have some sort of program up and running, and the foundation of this project soon.

If this project is to be completed within an academic context for e.g. solution of a problem the university is facing, and thereby also completing your education(i.e. your dissertation/thesis) then you dont really have a choice about whether or not to invent this wheel.. Either write a paper on how the university could install Outlook and Exchange, or write an app that does the job. Your supervisor will be able to guide you as to the most sensible decision but I feel it will be the latter

Also 1 final thing. My friends have asked me if im using access or sql, well ive worked with both in the past, but with the sql I just made some databases using oracle, What do u think is the best way? Access or oracle? Keeping in mind I want this to be simple.

PLease be careful when using the word SQL - it means Structured Query Language and is a way of interacting with a database. Access is a product, SQL is a language - you cant really ask me "Should I use Access or SQL" any more than you can ask "should i read a book or should i read English"
I dont know what entity you have in mind when you say SQL, but most often, people refer to Microsoft SQL Server. In this case, you dont appear to be making such a reference because you mention oracle.. Can you see how not using the proper names for things rapidly leads to confusion?

You will need a relational database management system (RDBMS). You have several choices, including an offering from this forum's administrator:
VistaDB
Oracle Express
MySQL
PostGreSQL
SQL Server Express
MSDE(discontinued)
Access

I generally advocate avoiding Access at all costs. The other mentioned RDBMSs are generally free, subject to limitations. I'm unsure of the cost of VistaDB or the featureset. Of all the mentioned databases, Oracle would be my db of choice.

 

[desperado]

Outlook <> Outlook Express!

Which one are you using? Be certain/specific

Currently we are using Outlook Express. If you could I would be greatful, when you mention outlook what part could that help me on? On the whole project or just a part of the project (booking suites) would I have outlook express up and running in my Project?

Hmm, ok. Clarification: Visual Studio 2005 is a suite of development products from Microsoft, one of which is VB.NET 2005. It's a bit like Office is a suite of productivity apps that includes WOrd, Excel, Access.. When you say Visual Studio is different to VB.NET that's like saying Office is different to Word or Sportscar is different to Porsche 911.

If your previous knowledge is of VB.NET then it is likely an older .NET framework version like 1.0 or 1.1 (2002/2003 respectively). It was possible to buy VBN separately in these versions.

Lol thanx for the clarification, I feel kinda dumb now. Yup I was using the older version of vb.net not sure which one of the 2 you have mentioned. But whenever I do open up an old program I made It comes up with quite a lot of errors, kinda weird.

See if you can use an implementation of this wheel that has already been invented before you write your own. If you choose to write your own, ditch excel, ditch old code, and write something well engineered from the start

And dont use Microsoft Access either!

Something that has already been invented? Kinda difficult if you ask me. The thing is I created something similar in the past, but this program is a few levels above that program. But as you said to ditch the excel and the old code I will do, lol and I shall try my best to start from scratch but the part were you said to not use access is hurting me the most. Access was so simple, especially when I linked the program to access, it was a simple prodecure and truthfully vb it self made me a database, I just changed the colours lol.

I preferentially use other people's wheels rather than reinvent my own. Often when I look at the dollar cost of someone else's wheel compared with what I would charge to develop it myself, its is cheaper to buy. Of course, value has to be assigned to the worth of having written something yourself and hence got the source code to modfy as you please. Often clients find they can make do with 90% functionality if implementing the other 10% would make the cost of the project 10 times more expensive

Yeh kool, I will try to look at somebody elses wheel, lol could you send me in the correct direction were would be the best place to look? My friend has decided to do something similar to mine but that is were I have differed, my program looks at all aspects of a helpdesk. I like your points, I think it would be cheaper if I just went out my self to produce the product. If I do the source code myself I know what the program is capable of aswell, if I make it I have full control, I understand.

If this project is to be completed within an academic context for e.g. solution of a problem the university is facing, and thereby also completing your education(i.e. your dissertation/thesis) then you dont really have a choice about whether or not to invent this wheel.. Either write a paper on how the university could install Outlook and Exchange, or write an app that does the job. Your supervisor will be able to guide you as to the most sensible decision but I feel it will be the latter

Yeh this is the solution to a problem, the problem is not within this university but for a school were I worked for a short amount of time. I want to have the end product in a shared resources, so any member of staff can access the program, mt first idea was to use asp.net and to have more of a web based solution. I know I have to invent the wheel because before I even jump to the solution I have to find the problems, I have to look at the problem (were communication at the moment is paper based) and I shall change this so mostly the help desk is computerised. The school has exchange, but exchange would only help me on booking the suites rite? How would exchange and vb interact? Or do I not even use vb? Yes I shall see my tutor in a few months, as I am in the early stages at the moment.

I generally advocate avoiding Access at all costs. The other mentioned RDBMSs are generally free, subject to limitations. I'm unsure of the cost of VistaDB or the featureset. Of all the mentioned databases, Oracle would be my db of choice.

Lol I feel even more dumber now than before, I understand you want the real terms and some of the point you do not understand I am sorry. I know access is weak for this type of operation, but it is the most simple in my case. To set up access in vb is easy, the wizard does this or you, if I decide to go with oracle (my choices are only oracle or access) then im a lil bit rusty. As I never used oracle in vb, I would be puzzled and wouldn’t have the slightest idea, but if I use access I have a general idea of how to operate multiple databases in vb.

 

[cjard]

Which one are you using? Be certain/specific

Currently we are using Outlook Express. If you could I would be greatful, when you mention outlook what part could that help me on? On the whole project or just a part of the project (booking suites) would I have outlook express up and running in my Project?

Outlook Express is a newreader and email client. It is by unfortunate naming coincidence that it is confused with the business resource management tool known as Outlook.
Outlook would solve your entire problem; you have a business, user and resources the users wish to use. Outlook can manage the whole shebang.
Outlook Express cannot.

Outlook would not run as part of your project; it would obviate the need for [the resource management aspect of] your project to exist at all.

Lol thanx for the clarification, I feel kinda dumb now. Yup I was using the older version of vb.net not sure which one of the 2 you have mentioned. But whenever I do open up an old program I made It comes up with quite a lot of errors, kinda weird.

The versions are sifficiently different for old ways of coding to be remodeled. Such processes occasionally require that functions or entire classes are obsoleted.
Quite often these messages are warnings about improper coding styles. If you turn on options Strict and Explicit you will encounter even more errors. I recommend turning them on, fixing the errors and learning why the errors occur; it will further your programming knowledge.

Something that has already been invented?

Yeh kool, I will try to look at somebody elses wheel, lol could you send me in the correct direction were would be the best place to look?

Yeh this is the solution to a problem, the problem is not within this university but for a school were I worked for a short amount of time.

Helpdesk and resource management are common problems in a business. In the current business I work for, the process is managed by two softwares - Outlook with Exchange ar eused to manage resources. Problem reporting is via a modified Bug Tracking system originally intended for software, but expanded to include most aspects of failure in the business

The school has exchange, but exchange would only help me on booking the suites rite? How would exchange and vb interact?

They wouldnt, you would jsut tell them to install Outlook and use the resource management functionality within. To use an analogy, the school have a site-license for MS Word but it isnt installed. They want to write letters and you tell them you can either write a word processor yourself, or get them to install Word. In that situation you would get them to install Word.

I know access is weak for this type of operation, but it is the most simple in my case. To set up access in vb is easy, the wizard does this or you

I dont recall connecting a VB project to oracle to be significantly more difficult than Access; in both cases you will be required to know SQL. You need to decide how much of a learning experience you want this to be and how much you'll get out of it in terms of personal and career development. At university I chose to implement a database-backed networked application because that's where i wanted to work in the future. A friend implemented a 3D engine with a fractal landscape that could be explored forever because he wanted to move into the games industry.

if I decide to go with oracle (my choices are only oracle or access) then im a lil bit rusty. As I never used oracle in vb, I would be puzzled and wouldn’t have the slightest idea, but if I use access I have a general idea of how to operate multiple databases in vb.

Once upon a time, you didnt know Access either. At this point, you make a choice based on what you want for the future; I'd recommend pushing yourself and learning Oracle - as one who knows both (admittedly more oracle) i dont see it as a huge jump from one to the other, but the prospects for an oracle developer are far further reaching than an Access one.

 

[desperado]

Outlook Express is a newreader and email client. It is by unfortunate naming coincidence that it is confused with the business resource management tool known as Outlook.
Outlook would solve your entire problem; you have a business, user and resources the users wish to use. Outlook can manage the whole shebang.
Outlook Express cannot.

Outlook would not run as part of your project; it would obviate the need for [the resource management aspect of] your project to exist at all.


Oh I do understand, I know outlook could probably solve my problem but I would need to use vb in some way really. I would still have to use vb and would have to construct the whole program in vb.

The versions are sifficiently different for old ways of coding to be remodeled. Such processes occasionally require that functions or entire classes are obsoleted.
Quite often these messages are warnings about improper coding styles. If you turn on options Strict and Explicit you will encounter even more errors. I recommend turning them on, fixing the errors and learning why the errors occur; it will further your programming knowledge.

Yeh because when I run the coding in this new version, there are errors left right and centre. I know there are warning about the improper coding styles, and next time I have a look at my programs I shall do what you have said about the option strict and explicit. At the moment I am trying my best to get around this way of working with vb.

Helpdesk and resource management are common problems in a business. In the current business I work for, the process is managed by two softwares - Outlook with Exchange ar eused to manage resources. Problem reporting is via a modified Bug Tracking system originally intended for software, but expanded to include most aspects of failure in the business

Yeh I know these are common problems, in the end I will have about 4 databases. Did you work on this by yourself?

They wouldnt, you would jsut tell them to install Outlook and use the resource management functionality within. To use an analogy, the school have a site-license for MS Word but it isnt installed. They want to write letters and you tell them you can either write a word processor yourself, or get them to install Word. In that situation you would get them to install Word.

Oh ok I know you have helped me with the resource management part, but I don’t think I shall be using that part. I think ive got a basic idea of how im going to use this part in the database, I really thought about what you said but I decided to go with it this way.

I dont recall connecting a VB project to oracle to be significantly more difficult than Access; in both cases you will be required to know SQL. You need to decide how much of a learning experience you want this to be and how much you'll get out of it in terms of personal and career development. At university I chose to implement a database-backed networked application because that's where i wanted to work in the future. A friend implemented a 3D engine with a fractal landscape that could be explored forever because he wanted to move into the games industry.

The thing is I connected access with vb by using wizard, which we all know how simple it is. I know lil sql, but before I knew nothing what so ever about sql and I still created a database in vb using access which was really easy. The thing is I want to go way out my way and achieve a lot, but at the same time my tutor wants goals achieved. Would it be better for me to go down the standard route and have a working project or down the difficult path and have a half working project? If this was more of a personal project then I would not think again and use what you think straight away. Just one question how do you use oracle in vb? I mean do you put the oracle coding within the vb coding, and set up the tables somewere else? Im a bit puzzled about this.

Once upon a time, you didnt know Access either. At this point, you make a choice based on what you want for the future; I'd recommend pushing yourself and learning Oracle - as one who knows both (admittedly more oracle) i dont see it as a huge jump from one to the other, but the prospects for an oracle developer are far further reaching than an Access one.

True say once upon a time I did not know access aswell. I want to make a choice which would help me, a choice were I can look back and be proud even if this means to push my self. My decision is to use oracle, I shall build up my knowledge on oracle, are there any resources on the net which talk about oracle in vb? Which I can look at? Maybe some examples and see how I shall fit my database in to my vb program. Well said and it is true, oracle is more recognized. And I know if I went to my tutor with the same program, one in access and the other in oracle, he would be more impressed with what I have to show using oracle.

 

[desperado]

i have been looking at some topics on this forum and have searched net resources to do with oracle coding in vb, I will have a go at some kind of lil project in this week. But with the major knowledge of oracle you have, do you think i can create multiple databases in vb with the following operations?
- to create user accounts with passwords?
- to be able to add current technical problems to a list, and for the admin to be able to look at the database and say which problem has been seen to?
- to hire and return items? and
- to book suites?

thanx

 

[cjard]

You may be using the word "database" when you mean "table"
Our oracle instance has 750 tables managing everything from bank account management, application processing, credit scoring, helpdesk, marketing analysis and reporting, sequence counting, historical statements, transaction authorisations, direct debit management, web page production and any number of other stupid ideas management can dream up one month and cessate the next..

I think one database will suffice for your requirements.